Kimberly Spencer (00:00)
Wendy Bjork, welcome to the Communication Queen podcast. I am so honored to have an expert in MS here because learning to speak specific niche and being able to tailor your message to that cause and dance the dance around help and also legalities is a skill set.
And I'm excited to learn from you what's been working for you as you've navigated communicating not only your story, but helping others on their journey with MS.
Wendy Bjork (00:34)
Well, thank you for having me here. This is very exciting. And this all came about because of one of my friends who told me I need to start talking about my journey. And it only happened about five years ago that I've started talking about dealing with MS for myself. I I hid behind a mask before masks were mandatory. Just thought that was easier because otherwise people just have so many questions. And because of
any invisible illness, you can't see what's wrong. So if I show up and I have lip gloss on, that doesn't mean I feel awesome. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. But people just assume because you look good that you feel good. And I think that goes across so many areas of our life, no matter what we're dealing with.
Kimberly Spencer (01:19)
Now, as you've built your business and started speaking more on your intuition and understanding what an invisible illness is and like sharing with that, what have you noticed is the response of most people as they start to open up to your message?
Wendy Bjork (01:35)
Most people are very open to hearing more about it because there's millions, just with MS, there's millions of people that deal with it. And I forgot what the statistic is where if it's every hour, someone worldwide gets diagnosed. It's just everywhere. But yet there's a lot of people who have no idea what it is. And I think just getting out there and explaining how it affects everybody differently, just like any condition. We are all different people. We're all different genetically made up and everything affects us differently.
just down to our cellular level.
Kimberly Spencer (02:07)
Yeah, yeah. And I think that you touched on such a great point of the, because it's a point that I used to teach on when I started my career in coaching, which was in body image and wellness. And then I moved into high performance in business coaching. And so many people are looking for cookie cutter strategies. And I've had some people come to me for business and for visibility. And I'm like, this is not the strategy for you. I actually, had
one person come to me and she was wanting to get visible on podcasts. And as I started to hear her strategy, was like, podcasts, maybe it, but I said, you need to go inside of other people's communities, and demonstrate what it is, show, not just tell. And the telling part can be like 25 % of your strategy going on podcasts, but it's not necessarily for everyone. So I'd love to know for you, like, what have you seen that's been really working?
And what do you see that you're like, I'd like to know how to like get more data on that or like understand is this even effective?
Wendy Bjork (03:08)
I think I've had mentors too that also tell me just go into groups on Facebook or start networking that way. And I did that for a while and I'm still in a lot of groups, but a lot of those groups aren't interested in helping themselves heal. They just want a platform where they can talk about their life, talk about the medicine they're on, talk about everything else, but what they're actually dealing with. I don't, and maybe just, they don't understand.
how deep this goes. This is really, a lot of it is a mindset. If we don't have a good mindset, it's just like spinning your wheels in a, like a dirt rut. You just, know, over and over doing the same thing over and over every day. And I think once people figure out that, yeah, this is a mindset game and I have to get my head around this and actually identify whatever illness it is as a separate identity and not just take it on as your identity.
And I think that has helped me so much in navigating it to not feel like, I have a mass. Now I can't do anything for rest of my life. I'm going to be in bed. And I mean, some people are unfortunately, they're hit harder with things and don't have the tools to deal with it. But I think, like you said about going online or finding groups, I think finding the right group is important and finding groups where you can contribute without being flagged.
And I find so often that I'm flagged on Facebook because what I say isn't the norm. later as we go along, I'll talk about what, you know, that's leading into for me. But back to the original question is it's really hard to find the right place to be. And in the five years I've been doing this, I'm still practicing it.
Kimberly Spencer (04:55)
Ooh, so you touched on a subject that I'm really passionate about, because I too have been a part of several groups that are support groups for certain diagnoses that involve my family members. And certain strategies that we've used are not the norm, but we've seen very positive results. And...
Yes, I completely empathize. And that's why I love podcasting so much because frankly, you can say what you want. And we put a medical disclaimer on it and say here's our medical disclaimer. Do your own research. Try some vitamins.
Wendy Bjork (05:32)
Right. Yes.
Kimberly Spencer (05:34)
But there's so much power in being able to speak up and also being able to gently navigate an industry that is very rooted in profit. So when you say you were flagged for certain things, I'd love just, know, full medical disclaimer, we're not doctors here.
But I'd love to know what were the things that you were flagged for that you would love to speak up more about.
Wendy Bjork (06:04)
It was inside my own articles and I would get a message. This is not appropriate for this community. And this was on just my main Facebook page. And I didn't really think I did anything wrong. Apparently whoever saw my title or something. I mean, one of them was titled like saints, MS and medicines or something along those lines because MS has been around since like the middle ages and nothing's
really being done about getting to the root of it. They're just expanding how they cover up symptoms. feel like. I write about that a lot. And I think that was one article because it probably had the word saints in it. I'm not sure.
Kimberly Spencer (06:47)
Yeah, it's so interesting with medical language and being able to walk that line of communication of like, even have in the appendix of my book, I was like, here's the list of words not to use. Like don't use diagnosed. Don't use, like you can, you may, can't use cured. You may say heal, but really leveraging it is like, here's my own transformational journey. Here's what I've done.
This is just my own personal experience. Everyone has their own. I'm just sharing my own story. And I think that that's where us as humans sharing our own story comes into play so valuably because no industry can say, I mean, they can, like, we're not gonna even talk about medical gas lighting, but you can't take away somebody's story.
Like that's your story, it's your experience no matter what it is that you experienced. And in that way, there is so much power because people can see, well, there's a possibility. she was able to try this solution and try this thing that mitigated her symptoms. there are these solutions that people can start to see and people start to see possibility beyond the scope of what they've been conditioned to see.
Wendy Bjork (08:05)
Yes, and that's my goal, that there are so many possibilities when we start asking questions, when we start seeking our own answers, seeking universal knowledge, there's so much there.
Kimberly Spencer (08:18)
I think it's just shaking the frame on belief systems. And that's what I would say is like in your messaging, how often are you just like shaking the frame of possibility? Like you see someone's box of like, here's what typically they believe about this condition, about this diagnosis. And then here's something leveraging story of something that maybe your own, maybe one of your clients.
that you've been able to just shake, that you can shake the frame of like, this is the only best right way to do things. Because so often people get stuck in that box of that there's only one way and there's the right way. And there's a bajillion different ways. Cause like you said, every person's body is different. So how do you like to shake the frame or are you doing that? Like, as I say that, do you feel like you're doing that enough in your messaging?
Wendy Bjork (09:15)
probably not doing it enough. Probably once a month I've been trying to do, I call it my mini rant where I'll take something that somebody's told me, like I'm going to die anyway. So I might as well just eat and drink what I want. So.
So I wrote an article about why you can't, I called it the YOLO lifestyle and why you can't live like that. Even if you say you want to, you're gonna die a painful death. And my picture was this giant, like purple hippopotamus sitting with a plate of donuts on his lap. I love it. And a bottle, like a row of pills next to it.
Kimberly Spencer (09:49)
Nice. Talk about a visual that lands. Do you find that your audience is more readers? Because you do a lot of writing articles and writing blogs. And do you find that they mostly are readers or are they listeners?
Wendy Bjork (10:03)
They're probably a mixture of both. And I just, I feel like even with my podcast, I'll do a written summary that just hits all the highlights in case they don't want to listen to the whole thing. Some people don't like listening to podcasts for whatever reason. They'd rather just scroll through it on their phone or I think everybody's, you know, brain works differently, learns differently. And I like having so
If I have like a workshop, call it my workshop for I'll buy an audio book and then I'll buy the paperback and then I'll just do a mini workshop for myself. If it's something I really want to integrate in my life and that really works good for me. And I know there's a lot of people that are visual learners, so that's why I like to put the written word out there.
Kimberly Spencer (10:43)
Yeah, yeah, think that that's such a poignant piece of communication is understanding how your audience likes to consume media. Like I had one client come to me and she was hosting all of these summits as her visibility strategy and like as her lead generation strategy. And I said, how many summits do you actually like to go to? And she's like, not really. I don't really go to them. And I was like, probably not the marketing strategy. It's gonna attract your clients.
when she pivoted her marketing strategy to do how she likes to consume because perception is projection. Like we attract who we are in so many ways, including the representational systems in which we consume our media. And I love the fact that you are modeling that because how you create many workshops for you to learn something, you're doing the same for your audience. Do you turn your articles into podcasts and mini podcast episodes and just read your article?
Wendy Bjork (11:40)
I'll turn it into a video. So I'll take one of my articles, turn it into a long form YouTube video. And then I use Opus clips to clip it and then send that out every day.
Kimberly Spencer (11:53)
I love that. Like that's a rock star visibility strategy right there of just being able to leverage what you already have. I think that that's one of the things that content creators get so hung up on is I have to create something new. And I'm like, I guarantee you that your audience does not remember your posts from five days ago.
Wendy Bjork (12:15)
Yes, even today.
Kimberly Spencer (12:16)
Yeah, yeah, you can reuse, can leverage, can repeat and recycle and repurpose your posts as much as you want. actually have, there's one coach that I follow and every year I look forward to her email, because it's one that's always convicted me, but I know that I'm gonna get it every year for her promo for her course that I already enrolled in, but I still look forward to the email, because it's a really convicting message.
But it's like, once I started to see after following her for years, I'm like, she's still, she's sending the same email once every year. And eventually I started looking forward to that email. So I think looking at content so often, we think we have to reinvent the wheel and say something new and not necessarily is that always true.
Wendy Bjork (13:04)
Right. I agree.
Kimberly Spencer (13:06)
What would you say is the core message that you, like the core, if you were to shake the frame of like the main belief system that people come to you having and that they leave transformed, no longer having, what would you say is that belief system?
Wendy Bjork (13:21)
belief system that you can help yourself heal and that you can be your own advocate and that it's okay to ask questions. We are paying the medical professionals to cure us, but there isn't a cure and people forget that it's okay to stand up for yourself. And I learned that from many years of going back and forth to the neurologist every time, oh, is he gonna have my cure this time? This time, am I gonna get my cure?
And it's just a hamster wheel. And once I realized that it's so empowering.
Kimberly Spencer (13:55)
Walk me through what that was like. Like what had to change within you in order to no longer seek the cure, because there is no cure for MS.
Wendy Bjork (14:06)
I think it took so long for them to diagnose me. started having symptoms when I was 15 and it took six years to diagnose me. So by then I'm done with college. I'm working my first full-time job and I started having symptoms that are worse because it's based on stress. It's based on probably not sleeping, probably what I was eating and drinking. And that's what they kept telling me, come back when something happens. It's, know,
a waiting game. And I still think their process is similar. You just keep waiting until something bad happens to come back. And my grandmother, my dad's mom was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, which isn't another autoimmune condition, probably in her thirties. And she had three little kids, three little boys. And you know, this is the 1940s, this happens. And I'm sure nobody listened to her. No doctors probably gave her the time of day.
And all I could think of, because by the time I got to know her, she was just stuck in a chair looking out her window all day. So when they diagnosed me, that's first thing I thought it was, I cannot sit there and look out my window. And by then she had passed. So she's really been my inspiration to use my voice, use my platforms for other women to like lead the way. And that's why I have the lighthouse symbol of like, I want to be the lighthouse for people who
are ready to go down the path to healing because it's available to everybody. It's just making up your mind, making that decision that you're going to take charge. And I think that's really my basis and want everybody to know that it's possible no matter what you're dealing with.
Kimberly Spencer (15:48)
Do you still experience symptoms since going on your journey?
Wendy Bjork (15:52)
I have a lot of permanent damage because I had a lot of relapses probably within the last 15 years. And I was probably 20 years into it and my doctor said, go get fitted for a walker and then next to the wheelchair, cause that's where you're heading. And I'm at two little boys. Like I can't be in a flipping wheelchair. I have two little kids to raise. And that's really what started to wake up. Like what was going on.
what needed to be done.
Kimberly Spencer (16:22)
Ooh, those medical wake-up calls. Sometimes I'm so grateful for doctors for when they give us those, because I've worked with many clients. I had a client of mine who was on the Crown Yourself podcast or other podcast, and she too, at the age of like 36, was told by a doctor, like, be prepared for a wheelchair. So she went into a skydiving space to like, she's like, well.
What's the worst that could happen? And she started finding out about other solutions and other possibilities. And that was how she stumbled upon the work of Dr. John Sarno for healing back pain. Cause that was what she was struggling with. There are so many of those catalysts within us where something that wakes that intuition up. Where it's like,
No, I have children to raise or no, that doesn't make sense to me. Like for me, that was very much when the OBGYN that I was interviewing to be my doctor for my first child from like when I got pregnant, told me I could have two diet cokes a day while pregnant. And I was like, what? I'm sorry. What? I don't even drink diet coke ever. Or soda.
but I was asking about caffeine. My intuition was just like, this is not the route for me. I'm gonna go a different route. And so when you started on that journey of going a different route because of that catalyst and also because of your children, so way to go, mama. Like what was the first shift that you realized needed to be made internally or externally?
Wendy Bjork (17:48)
would how it happened was by the time they were probably my kids are two years apart and they love the library so they were probably like four and six maybe ish and we'd go to the library and while they played and read pretend read whatever I would go look for books on inflammation because that's what kept that's the word that I kept like hearing was inflammation and that's what we have to do is change the level of inflammation in my body
And actually just checked out books on how to reduce it. And it talked about chemicals. It talked about things that are in our home, like laundry soap and how, and it totally makes sense. We wash our clothes in this stuff. It sits on our skin. Our body has no idea what to do with like the molecules that we're absorbing. So that's where I started was actually my laundry room and just found a clean laundry soap and started from that corner.
and just kept working out in the house. The food and everything else, that was like last.
Kimberly Spencer (18:50)
So you started with like cleaning out all the detergents and fragrances and things like that. And then eventually got to the food. What I'm curious, what laundrey soap do you use?
Wendy Bjork (19:03)
it's from Melaleuca. So they have the whole line of cleaning stuff and just getting rid of synthetics because they cause so much harm. And when I realized the stuff I was using when my kids were little, like the bath soaps and lotions, I was just like horrified. Yeah. Stuff that targets. So it must be fine. Right?
Kimberly Spencer (19:26)
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that's, there is a big hump in any holistic health journey. And I know I've definitely been on my kick of just like the navigating the emotions that come with it of like, wow, I've been duped for so long to believe that just because it's in a grocery store that it's safe.
Wendy Bjork (19:48)
Yeah. We shouldn't be going down that aisle. Our kids shouldn't be going down that aisle because everything is off gassing and that's right at their height. So they're just getting it full on and it's horrible.
Kimberly Spencer (20:01)
What is off-gassing?
Wendy Bjork (20:03)
So a lot of those cleaning bottles that we can smell it. They're all, they start like boiling or off-gassing at room temperature. So all these products are off-gassing all at once. And then you got a three or four foot high little kid going through there. It's just at their level. And just think about what that's doing to their poor little system that's not developed. my God.
Kimberly Spencer (20:26)
Yeah, I mean, just thinking about it, was like, I've never heard the term off gassing, but I walked down that if I ever have to walk down that aisle, like I'm like, I'm gonna breathe after. Yeah, because the fragrances are just so strong. So where are you now with your journey? So you started out with a lot of symptomology, you still have symptomology, but
Wendy Bjork (20:38)
Right.
Kimberly Spencer (20:49)
Is it mediated? you able? Is it a day to day thing? Is it just meeting your body where it's at?
Wendy Bjork (20:55)
It's a lot of metering my energy. So I'm not doing a lot of like mountain climbing. Once in a while I will go on a hike, but it has to be perfect weather because the hot and the cold extremes affect me. So I do not live in a ideal climate. I live in the Northern half of Wisconsin and like the cold affects me, the hot affects me where it turns like my legs to spaghetti noodles, which that was my first symptom ever was.
My parents had a hot tub and anytime we were getting a cold, my mom would send us to get a steam, you know, in the hot tub and I'd get out and my legs are like cooked noodles and I'm thinking, okay, I'm a runner. What's wrong with me? And I thought, well, maybe I just did too much. So I think it's just.
goes back to keeping a journal of all your symptoms. And I did not do that at first, but that's what really helps a lot of people keeping a journal. So you can tell, this my illness? Is this, I did too much yesterday. Is it I'm pregnant? Is it I'm exhausted because I have little kids and trying to discern all of that. And that's a big job. I know that's why it's great to write it down. Just do brain dumps. And for me,
If I'm tired, I can't think. And sometimes I can't speak real great, I mix up my words. And I've had vision problems and it's just like head to toe. And if we, I know dwell on it, then it just makes it worse. But just, it's just navigating it. You know, it's been three decades for me since I first started seeing things. And I think just realizing that this is a journey. It's not going away.
And there's days where it's better than some, there's days that it's worse and just accepting it. It's a lot of acceptance, a lot of navigating it, a lot of just allowing.
Kimberly Spencer (22:46)
I think, I mean, just in general, that's such a valuable tool of leveraging data. And cause I always say feelings will fluctuate, but data doesn't lie. And so when you start to just track your data of like how you're feeling, I started to do that when I was healing myself from bulimia and I would just notice like, okay, I'm going to write down, like I was really triggered to go rush to the store and just what was the emotion that I was feeling.
Being able to have that data there is no matter what you're struggling with, whether it's financial difficulties or health or certain things with your body or your kids, like just being able to have some sort of tracking tool, whether it's your notes and app in your phone or in a journal, that is such a great practical advice. I think that could be translatable to any scenario for any medical condition or for anyone who just wants to feel better.
I mean, I literally just this past week was like, I didn't recognize how not good I was feeling with having iron deficiency during pregnancy because I was settling for a normal like, I'm just, you I'm pregnant. But then I get my labs back and I was like, no, we got some work to do. And I started listening to my intuition and being able to have the awareness as soon as I started to feel better and take the right supplements for me that
That suddenly I was like, I didn't know how bad I was feeling because I had just accepted it as normal. And I think a huge takeaway from tracking data and being able to, to, you know, follow any sort of symptomology that's, that's off or wonky or just like, like your legs feeling like noodles is like, what did I just work myself too hard? Am I too stressed? Like, did I do too much? Those pieces are so valuable for when you can sit down at the table, but with you, your intuition.
your doctors and say, hey, like here's everything.
Wendy Bjork (24:38)
Right. And the other piece of that is medical records are hacked. They're lost all the time. So if you don't have your own record of what's been going on, then you're just kind of left to recreate it yourself. And I experienced that I've been going to the same like clinic center for 30 years and they upgraded their system. 25 years of my records were gone. All my MRI scans, everything.
And I thought, this is great. Luckily I've been kind of keeping a log for myself. Not as detailed as I probably should have been, but every year I would write a letter before I went to my neurologist and tell her what happened like the prior year. So at least I had those Google docs to go back into and just save it in a folder then.
Kimberly Spencer (25:27)
That is such great advice. It's advice that I give on the financial side for my business owner clients with our coaching company, because the internet does, technology does as is, technology does, and it updates and there's bugs and there's tweaks and there's hackings and things like that. And to be truly at cause for your life means also taking that responsibility into your own hands.
and moving forward with that. And I think that that's such a powerful place for any person to start with that's such a key point in your messaging is really being that advocate for yourself because no one's gonna advocate better for yourself than you.
Wendy Bjork (26:09)
exactly.
Kimberly Spencer (26:11)
Yeah. Wendy, I have loved our conversation. We could talk about a lot of things for a long time, I think. I would love to know where can we find you? How can we work with you? And how do we start to learn how to listen to our intuition and be our own best advocates for our health, whether it's with MS or just health in general? Yes.
Wendy Bjork (26:33)
My main website is hearts of wellness.com. And then because I am not in love with social media and what they do for flagging and censorship and tell us what not to say, I created my own community as part of my main platform. So to reach my free community, it's hearts of wellness.com / community. And there I'll post my articles. I'll post my podcasts and that way we can talk about it without.
somebody looking over our shoulder all the time. Because I feel like that is just so disruptive and it just helps us be who we are when we can say what we want.
Kimberly Spencer (27:13)
Agreed. Wendy, I'd love to know from you, what does you love about our conversation?
Wendy Bjork (27:19)
I love that we spoke about our intuition because when we listen to our intuition and follow it, we are on the right path. It's when we don't listen to it and don't believe it, which I've done a lot of times in my past. doesn't always work out for typically does not work out for the best. So I love that we talked about that and I loved how you related other medical.
questions and your own life and woven into what I'm trying to express.
Kimberly Spencer (27:53)
Well, you're expressing it beautifully. think your message is very needed for people to be their best advocates for themselves and to take ownership of their health, no matter what diagnosis they've been delivered. Because as I have said for the past eight years, just because it's a diagnosis does not mean it's a death sentence. I am championing you all the way, Wendy, with getting your message out there and helping more people come to a holistic form of
healing and integration within their body. So well done you. Go follow Wendy, go join her community and allow yourself to be open and expressing in a safe place where you won't be gaslit about your symptomology. Sharing what you're experiencing.
As always, your story has the power to serve and save at least one life. So go out there and let your story and your voice be heard.
