Enjoy this episode & transcript below where Kimberly Spencer, Master NLP Mindset & Communications Coach and CEO of Communication Queens, interviews host of Frugalpreneur and founder of Podcast Marketing Agency, Sarah St John.

What if your podcast could go from zero to top 200 without fancy ad budgets or soul-sucking marketing tactics? That’s exactly what Sarah St. John, founder of Podcast Marketing Agency and host of the globally ranked Frugalpreneur, did—and she’s spilling her secrets on this episode of the Communication Queen Podcast.

Sarah is a walking masterclass in podcast marketing that actually works. From landing her show in Apple’s Entrepreneurial Essentials list (where only eight podcasts hold court!) to building a loyal audience without burning out or blowing cash, Sarah proves you don’t need to follow the “post it on social and pray” strategy. We dive into her frugal but fierce approach—think podcast swaps, clever promo hacks, and the magnetic energy of building genuine podcaster relationships.

This isn’t just an episode; it’s a visibility wake-up call. If you’ve been wondering how to grow your podcast audience without screaming into the void or throwing money at paid ads, Sarah’s insights will light a fire under your mic.

So grab your earbuds, Queen. It’s time to ditch the excuses, own your voice, and make your podcast impossible to ignore.

FYI Transcripts may contain a few typos. With many episodes lasting 30-minutes, it can be difficult to catch minor errors. Enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podcast Addict, Castbox, Amazon Music, iHeart Radio, Pandora, Youtube, or on your favorite podcast platform.

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Summary

Sarah talks about podcast marketing, and the things that podcasters typically get wrong. She explains that simply sharing the podcast on social media is not enough, and that there are other ways to reach a podcast audience, such as paid ads, collaborations, and podcast guesting. She also shares her own experience with starting her podcast, The Frugal Planner, and how it unexpectedly became a top 200 podcast in the entrepreneurship category. Sarah emphasizes the importance of enjoying the process and not being obsessed with rankings They discuss the impact of being in the Apple Podcast essentials list, and how it can increase visibility and listenership. Sarah shares her checklist for creating eye-catching cover art, such as bold colors and a focused design that stands out while scrolling through podcast apps. They also talk about the power of relationships and credibility that come with having a successful podcast. They brainstorm ways to further use the podcast to market the Frugalpreneur brand and services, including creating a mini-series and potentially getting into the New Forget budgeting strategy. Here's w The guest, Sarah, is from the Podcast Marketing Agency, and she talks about her journey in the podcast industry and how she helps podcasters market and grow their shows. She discusses the importance of networking and building relationships in the industry, as well as investing in conferences and high-quality equipment. Sarah also talks about the collaboration vs. competition mentality in the podcast industry and how that can help podcasters grow. 

 

Kimberly Spencer (00:00)

Sarah welcome to Communication Queen. I know that you are the founder of Podcast Marketing Agency and you are all things podcaster. You're a global top 200 podcaster with Frugal preneur. You are such a badass and you're hysterical and my favorite person to hang out with at podcast conventions.

 

Sarah St. John (00:20)

Well, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. This will be fun.

 

Kimberly Spencer (00:23)

Absolutely. So what what do podcasters get wrong in their marketing?

 

Sarah St. John (00:27)

I mean, I think it's the, that they feel like just sharing it on social media is all they need to do or even like not even going that far. But, really the thing is though, yes, you should share to social, the chances that someone sharing the social is more for awareness. People likely aren't going to like click on it and then go listen. So it's more like for someone to see the repetition, you know,

 

but I think what I do is there's a variety of things, whether it's podcasts ads, like in different podcast players, apps and directories, because someone's already listening to a podcast in there. So there's like display ads. There's, with certain kinds of ads, you can like record your own little trailer, so to speak, that plays at the beginning of someone else's podcast.

 

So those types of things, they're more likely to actually click over and check out your podcast, but that's a paid method. But there's a lot of free options as well. I definitely recommend submitting your podcast to Apple Podcast Promos. And of course I did a session on that at Podcast Movement Evolutions, because it's free. why not? And there's no guarantee they'll...

 

you know, feature your show, but why not submit it?

 

There's different newsletters that are specifically about podcasts or there's different even like blogs are finding a way. Let's say you have someone gave me this example. I don't know if it was you or who it was, but like a dental podcast. If you can find, I'm just using that as an example. Like a blog about dentistry or the

 

you know, the top 10 dental podcasts, which I don't even know if that's a thing, but you know, I'm just using that as an example, like finding different blogs, newsletters, whatever that either have to do with your topic or niche. And then even better ones that are talking about podcasts in that niche, and try to find a way to get featured or, you know, get on that list, so to speak.

 

Let's see. Yeah, there's, there's just so many different ways or collaborations even or like podcasts swaps podcast guesting, which I know you're obviously big on.

 

Kimberly Spencer (02:50)

Proz on podcast guesting and we you know this is a podcast swap To give you some context like I just recorded my episode with Sarah yesterday for the Frugalpreneur.

 

And then she's on like literally the day after. And then on Friday, she's coming into the podcast party for our VIPs and our Pitch Please competition, which is just, it's a play fest. It's not really a competition. don't like competition. So like we get to see each other three times in a week, which is amazing.

 

Sarah St. John (03:18)

It's better when it's in person. And then you see each other like, yeah. And then you see each other like three times a day at least. But yeah, you know, podcast guesting, like even if you have your own podcast, I recommend being a guest on other podcasts because obviously that audience is already listening to a podcast. the chances that they'll click over to yours, you know, so just finding these different ways, whether paid or free.

 

Kimberly Spencer (03:21)

True, because that's we get together.

 

Sarah St. John (03:46)

to get your podcast out there in some sort of format that is more conducive to, know, that will reach podcast listeners versus just being on social media.

 

Kimberly Spencer (04:01)

So what got you into podcasting? Did you set out to be at like in the top 200 of entrepreneurship podcasts or were you like, I think I'm just gonna do this thing and talk and it sounds like fun and I get to meet cool people.

 

Sarah St. John (04:13)

Yeah, well, it's actually kind of funny. So I, in 2019, was writing a book called Frugalpreneur. And I decided to launch a podcast to coincide with the book, also Frugalpreneur. But it was just gonna be like a mini series, like 10 episodes to kind of coincide with the book as an extra like marketing avenue. But I got more leverage and traction with the podcast than the book. And I love the networking and the connections and even the friendships and...

 

I've been doing it for like five years now. And so I can't say I started on accident, but I started with no intention for it to be like a thing. a whole thing. but yeah. And so now I'm like obsessed with the podcast industry. I subscribed to probably over 50 podcasts and

 

Most of my friends at this point are what I call pod pals or pod peeps, pod squad. There's so many different names. I just love the community, the industry, all of it.

 

Kimberly Spencer (05:10)

Yeah, I found the community when we launched our agency and then in 2023 when I went to Podcast Movement I was like, oh my gosh, this is one of the most inclusive, open, communicative industries. It's so welcoming, it's so supportive. And yeah, there's some undercurrents sometimes just like with every industry of people who are more in competition, but for the most part, it's really, really supportive.

 

and it's collaborative. And I think that that's why like, truly believe that podcasters, whether you are just guesting on a bunch of shows or you are, you have your own and your own brand, that voice that you're giving to yourself, to your businesses is gonna be the voice of the future. Because I mean, currently we have clickbait social media 1.7 seconds compared to long form dialogue and content and

 

you know, now with AI emerging with more audio, like we're going to be able to, it's going to be observing how we communicate. And I think podcasters can hopefully bring hope and consciousness to AI in the fact that it's not trigger happy. It's, it's a dialogue. It's open to exploration and curiosity.

 

Sarah St. John (06:27)

Yeah, that makes me think. I just hope that, and I'm sure some people will do this, create podcasts that are AI, but I hope it doesn't become like, I wouldn't even say it'd be the norm, but I hope it doesn't, I hope that doesn't take off, because that would be super annoying.

 

Kimberly Spencer (06:46)

I

 

mean, I think there's something to like energy. Like we saw when AI came out that, you know, suddenly there's this huge influx of like, I get to do all my copy for me. And then after a while, you're like, I've heard the word delve and a tapestry of ideas, like way too often. Geez.

 

Sarah St. John (07:02)

that's so funny. ⁓

 

Sarah Lohose, you know, know her. well, of course you do. Yeah. Cause she's also in Austin. It's so funny. Cause I'm always like yesterday, I was asking if he knew Liz Wilcox and it's like, duh, we all had dinner together. It's like, I can't, I can't keep it straight. Who knows who, but anyway, she actually recently posted something about, I think it was on threads or something. Like, does anyone actually use the word delve?

 

So I thought it was funny that you brought that up.

 

Kimberly Spencer (07:31)

definitely say I used Delve like in 11th 12th grade for my thesis papers and research papers, but that was only because I wanted to use some other word and was flipping through a thesaurus.

 

Sarah St. John (07:43)

Yeah, and I think I commented on her post and I was like, well, let's delve further into this or something.

 

Kimberly Spencer (07:48)

So you have scaled your podcast to such an immense status with the Frugalpreneur. What were your best marketing tactics that you use? And more importantly, like what I'm interested in is like, what was your energy behind it? Like, what were you thinking as you were just doing these things? Was it was it just like, I'm going to fuck around and find out?

 

Sarah St. John (08:13)

I mean, I was never like really trying to get in the top one. At one point I was in the top 100, but I think it is top 200 now. But anyway.

 

It wasn't, wasn't like something I was trying to do. It was kind of out of nowhere. Cause I check my, analytics every day and there was one day and this was like, I don't know, maybe a year or something ago. And I noticed a rapid increase in downloads just out of nowhere. and you know, when you guess on other shows, you might see an increase in order when you release a new episode, whatever.

 

But it was more than usual. And so I was telling some podcast friends, pod pals, what have, about it. And I was like, I don't understand what happened or where it's coming from. And they actually looked into it and noticed I was in like the, um, an Apple podcast. was listed in the essentials. Well, actually last I checked, I'm still am in entrepreneurial essentials. And there's only like eight podcasts listed in that. And then.

 

And then I was in the top 200 and then like the next day or two was in the top 100 and then whatever ever since I've been in, I've never dropped out of the top 200, but to stay in the top 100 is kind of difficult. But anyway, um, and to this day, I still don't know for sure what happened, but my guess is, cause I did submit for the Apple podcast promo, but this was months prior.

 

And the thing about it is they don't ever tell you if they actually picked you or not, which is really dumb. You think they'd want you to know, but anyway. So that's my guess, especially since I'm in the essentials, like.

 

Yeah, that's my best guess. so, and then once you're actually in there, I mean, cause now more people are seeing your show. Cause they only in any given category, at least an Apple, they only show like the top 200, as far as like listings.

 

Otherwise, you pretty much have to search for something to find a given podcast or see what recommended because you listen to some other podcasts. So to be able to, know, and I don't know how often people actually go in the charts to look for that. And are they going to pick someone that's closer to like, you know, whatever. But still, it's, and I think especially with being in the essentials, that's probably even more relevant is just

 

people constantly seeing that cover art and getting more more listeners that way.

 

Kimberly Spencer (10:46)

And I know you said like one of the things in your checklist, which I highly recommend everyone go and download from her website, podcastguest.agency. It's a great checklist. One of the essentials is that cover art that pops. And what really defines cover art that pops?

 

Sarah St. John (11:03)

you're talking about the audit checklist. Yeah, podcastsmarketing.agency. So cover art that pops, I recommend colors that stand out. Well, usually ideally one solid color, but not...

 

Kimberly Spencer (11:05)

on it.

 

Sarah St. John (11:20)

You know something that can see see the color on my cover art the background color is just like a bluish navy bluish but the image itself is like the piggy bank, which is bright pink. But something kind of you know basic don't have a whole lot of different things going on one central thing. And.

 

Your title, I think your title has something to do with it as well. Now my title kind of goes against the typical recommendation because it's a made up word. Most people are not going to be searching Frugalpreneur unless they're specifically searching for my show. But if they're searching for frugal entrepreneurship or, you know, whatever. And that's why I have a tagline.

 

also that says building a business on a bootstrap budget so that for SEO, but also for, if someone can't figure out that Frugalpreneur means frugal entrepreneur, I mean, if you can pick something cute and catchy like that, that works, then that's good. like your title Communication Queens it's

 

you know, it's pretty clear that it's about communication So the title, I think is important. A cute or funny, even cover art that really stands out and pops like visually, like colorful, something that basically what you want to keep in mind is like, if you're scrolling through a podcast app, what cover would like

 

get you to stop the scroll or catch your attention.

 

Kimberly Spencer (12:43)

we found Communication Queen when we launched it, just like it hit number 55 in marketing and Apple podcasts.

 

Sarah St. John (12:50)

Oh, okay, so you've been in the top 100 too.

 

Kimberly Spencer (12:52)

For a hot second, yeah, I think we slipped and fell from grace. Now we're in the top 100 for India and Russia though.

 

Sarah St. John (12:59)

Okay. Well, that's important too. Those are big countries.

 

Kimberly Spencer (13:03)

I mean, they are India - It's a gigantic country with a huge population. So I'm so grateful. And it's looking at, you know, what what is that thing that pops and we found that like that bright pink of the Communication Queen podcast, really does pop. Crown Yourself® has had a larger and longer runway to being in the top 2%.

 

And I think we've changed our cover art a few times. We also did a whole rebrand back in 2021, back from calling it the princess and the B which is all about the B's and becoming the queen of your life, to like, was just like, why not name it after my company? So that was a big like no brainer, duh moment for me where I was like, this, why I'm just gonna...

 

keep everything very simple and have it be a very coherent brand and understanding that cohesiveness of the brand. And that was why when we split and created the agency, we created a whole separate brand. It's a whole vibe. It's like bright. It's neon. It's colorful. It's different than the Crown Yourself brand. And I wanted it to be like the golden shadow of the Crown Yourself brand.

 

Sarah St. John (14:08)

So kind of on that topic, it would be kind of awesome to get your point of view on if, I've kind of, okay, so Frugal preneur it's my podcast and I have no intention of ever stopping it or any of this stuff. I've contemplated, you know, changing the name or the cover art or whatever to, or expanding the name to focus on podcasting. But I'm like, no, no, no. Anyone I've talked to, they're like, no.

 

So I thought about, well, maybe launching a second podcast about podcasting because basically Frugalpreneur, sorry, I don't want to turn this into a coaching session, but.

 

Kimberly Spencer (14:46)

I love it. Let's do it.

 

Sarah St. John (14:49)

cause Frugalpreneur, there isn't a direct correlation to my podcast marketing agency.

 

Kimberly Spencer (14:58)

You've got a lot of big podcasts, like big podcasters on your show. And I think that that can be a great gateway drug to your podcast agency versus having it be like having to start a whole podcast around that. I don't think that that's entirely necessary based on the fact that you can always go back because

 

relationships track no matter what industry you're in or what business you are. I mean, I've jumped industries four times. and I've had clients who were Pilates clients become coaching clients. I've had coaching clients become our Communication Queen clients. I've had my network from Hollywood come in to work with me as both a Pilates instructor and as a coach. it's, all like people like doing business with people that they know like and trust. And that's the beautiful thing about having a podcast is that it does

 

build a relationship. And so you have the street cred of having that relationship also have the credibility of saying, you you have a podcast, it's a global top 200 show, wasn't even global top 100. And so there's something you're doing right when it comes to marketing your show, because it is getting out there on a high level.

 

Sarah St. John (16:02)

Yeah, that's a good point. And also I was thinking of creating maybe a separate podcast, but just as a mini series. So it's not like, cause we kind of talked about that yesterday in general, more, it's not an ongoing podcast, but maybe I could create like a 10 part one time, you know, podcast for my agency on different like marketing podcast, tips or something so that at least it's out there. And if people find it,

 

then it'll be a direct, you know.

 

Kimberly Spencer (16:33)

Yeah, it directly attracts and like that's one of the things that when we had Cliff Ravenscraff on the show, he shared that about how one of his podcasts he did was just a simple series and 10 part series. It still is bringing people into his mastermind years later. Yeah. And it's that's the power of the podcast is that as long as you're paying for your hosting, which is like my husband still pays for his hosting. He hasn't done his podcast in like four years.

 

Sarah St. John (16:59)

Okay.

 

Kimberly Spencer (17:00)

But he's had some really extraordinary guests like Mark Pellegrino from all the movies. I think he had Jennifer Hale on who's like the queen of voice acting. Like he's had some really extraordinary guests. So he's just letting the podcast kind of live on for right now. And he may resume it, he may not. But it's free from the most part what I've seen is of those 90 % of podcasts that are no longer technically active because they're not producing every 90 days, still a majority of them like

 

are consistently paying for their service to have the show up and available. I have a friend of mine, she hit New and Noteworthy, she hit that on the charts, some rock star, like celebrity style influencer guests on her show. She did eight episodes, didn't produce anymore and it still lives on. And it still generates and.

 

brings in people into her branding business, even though her branding business is not something active, it's all automated.

 

Sarah St. John (17:55)

So with Frugalpreneur top one and 200, it never did get a new and noteworthy, but of course, back when I launched that podcast, I didn't know. I mean, that was five years ago. I didn't know. I don't think I even knew what that was, but now I do. And maybe I could kind of research and figure out the best ways to kind of like, anyway, so if I do launch this like 10 part or however many parts,

 

many podcasts for my agency, I could attempt to get that in new and noteworthy. Yeah. That'll be my trial run.

 

Kimberly Spencer (18:30)

Yeah, and then also if you figure out and hack that system, then that's something that you can also advertise as a part of your services.

 

Sarah St. John (18:38)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. so many good ideas.

 

Kimberly Spencer (18:42)

We're just gonna keep generating them. Like this is the power of the podcast. It can be a mastermind, it can be a coaching session, it can be an interview.

 

Sarah St. John (18:49)

It can be an ⁓ yeah!

 

Kimberly Spencer (18:52)

Yeah,

 

experience. It just hits all your buttons in all the right places. It is an inside joke and I have no idea how it got started, but it cracks Sarah and I up every time. that's why when we get together see us in person, we are ridiculous.

 

Sarah St. John (18:56)

It's an inside joke.

 

Yeah. Well, I want to say, I mean, it was at a podcast conference and I think it was at one of the parties, one of the dance parties. But why we started saying it or how it started, I don't know.

 

Kimberly Spencer (19:21)

It's a mystery. But I don't think it's a mystery that needs to be solved.

 

Sarah St. John (19:25)

Unsolved mysteries.

 

Kimberly Spencer (19:27)

Turn it into a podcast. What has the Frugalpreneur as a brand and as a podcast done for you as a business owner?

 

Sarah St. John (19:34)

So one of the things that I like about podcasting is the ability to have, you know, bigger name people on your show. like if you didn't have a podcast and you wanted to speak to, let's say JLD or John Lee Dumas or Pat Flynn or Jordan Harbinger, whoever these are all big podcasters.

 

Kimberly Spencer (19:50)

John Lee Dumas is the podcast of our Entrepreneurs on Fire. to some context.

 

Sarah St. John (19:56)

Yeah. I'm Pat Flynn a Smart Passive Income and yeah. Anyway. So if you were to like, try to reach out to them or contact them and be like, Hey, can I have 30 minutes of your time? You're either not going to get a response or it's going to be a no. But if you have a podcast, and you're like, Hey, would you like to come on my podcast to talk about, you know,

 

the new book that you're, you know, that's another thing, side tangent. If you want to get like a big name person on your show, that's typically maybe hard to get. Pay attention to when, if they do write books, pay attention to when their next book is coming out because they're much more likely, because they do these podcasts book tour thingies and they're much more likely to come on

 

you smaller shows during a book tour or podcast tour than any other time. So that's something to keep in mind.

 

Kimberly Spencer (20:51)

Yeah, it's like what I think the example that I gave on on your show with Brendan Burchard and Tony Robbins and Tony Robbins stayed on the New York Times bestseller list for like 16 extra weeks because he was doing like every podcast with over a thousand down like he was doing so many podcasts and I wish the podcasters I knew that they had like 10,000 downloads like they had small numbers and he still did their show.

 

Sarah St. John (20:56)

Yes.

 

Yeah

 

Man, I'll keep that in mind for his next book. Yeah. but yeah, so having a podcast, I think, you know, the ability to have to connect with, bigger name people and maybe network or there have been times where like I'll be on someone's show or vice versa.

 

Kimberly Spencer (21:19)

Yeah.

 

Sarah St. John (21:35)

And they happen to know or are an acquaintance of so-and-so. And so they put in, they do an intro for you to them. And then that's how they are willing to come on. And so I think that's one thing with the podcast that I've really enjoyed. And then just it, it's propelling me into the whole podcast space and business and just.

 

The speaking sessions, the now the agency

 

I guess in my own personal life, just like, I don't know, it makes you feel good, like to connect with these people and have these conversations.

 

Kimberly Spencer (22:15)

Yeah, what's your favorite question to ask?

 

Sarah St. John (22:17)

now that's a good question. My favorite question to ask on a podcast episode, because I don't usually normally ask the same questions to different people. I just kind of go with the flow. Hmm.

 

I mean, I guess hearing about like, if I'm interviewing a very successful, well-known entrepreneur or podcaster, having them talk about their failures leading up to that.

 

I think that's pretty good.

 

Kimberly Spencer (22:43)

Yeah, because there's so much magic when you can talk about the failure. And when people are vulnerable enough to talk about the failure, because I've talked with some really great podcasters and had some really great CEOs and masterminds that I'm like, these people are super successful, but they don't share their failures. And that's because they're not sharing their vulnerability. The courage vibration is not actually resonating. And so people are kind of like,

 

I've actually had podcasters say that sometimes super, super, super successful CEOs were actually the worst guests because they had no idea how to tell a story because they didn't want go there vulnerably and share about a failure for fear of how to make them look.

 

Sarah St. John (23:22)

I think being able to share your whole story and the vulnerability is a good thing and helps you connect and relate better with the hosts and the listeners. Cause I think a lot of times we, when it comes to top entrepreneurs or top celebrities or whoever, we don't usually know the backstory or all the years and failures that it took to get

 

them to the point that we see now. to hear about kind of that process is, though here's an example. I had a guest on my podcast. This is to this day, I think still one of my most popular episodes. and he's originally from somewhere in Africa, came to America with only a hundred bucks and bootstrapped basically it

 

I would call it like a staircase situation where like, okay, he started with a hundred bucks and I forget what the first thing he did was, but then once he got to $2,000 from whatever that thing was, he bought a camera, did photography. Then when he had, you know, $10,000 and whatever, he just kind of kept going and going higher up as he made more money than he invested in something else with that money to then anyway, so he now has like three multimillion dollar.

 

software companies, but bootstrapped it all the way from a hundred dollars. So I think stories like that of like, okay, yeah. If you were to see him now and not know his backstory, it's like, okay, well, did he come into that money? Did he inherit it? Like what's the deal? But to learn that whole backstory and how he kind of, I'll call it stair stepping. don't know. his way bootstrapped, it's just,

 

It makes you realize that you can do it too.

 

Kimberly Spencer (25:13)

So you know what I'm gonna ask you, right?

 

Sarah St. John (25:15)

are you going to ask like what my stair step process?

 

Kimberly Spencer (25:18)

What's your favorite failure? Yeah, your favorite failure business wise.

 

Sarah St. John (25:20)

my favorite failure!

 

Okay, so I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with shiny object syndrome.

 

Kimberly Spencer (25:31)

No. Who's funny?

 

No!

 

Sarah St. John (25:32)

Yeah, exactly. And so like when I was starting out in 2008 with, you know, trying to have an online business, I tried this, that, and the other thing, blogging, affiliate marketing, dropshipping, print on demand, all these different things. And, you know, all that stuff basically were failures, but it's what prompted me to write the book, Frugalpreneur, which then led into the podcast.

 

which then has now led into all these other things. And so I guess it's like, even though I had multiple online business failures and honestly, they probably wouldn't fail if I stuck with them. The issue was I kept getting starting object syndrome and would jump. I like, would get bored really quick with one thing and then jumped the next thing. And so, but you know, those failures ended up

 

leading to a book and a podcast and so on and so forth.

 

Kimberly Spencer (26:26)

Yeah, and ultimately you're calling because your podcast you've had for five years. And I think, you know, it's common for entrepreneurs to have that shiny object syndrome in the beginning. And, you know, you're trying everything and you're seeing what's going to work or seeing what's what's it's the spaghetti against the wall sort of methodology. But when you start to really hone in with clarity and get really clear and then I think also to prevent entrepreneurs from having that shiny object syndrome, it's building in systems.

 

Sarah St. John (26:30)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kimberly Spencer (26:52)

And it's having a system and commitment and systems can be team. can be support. can be hiring someone like you to do that, like the podcast marketing. Like it's building in systems so that you can go off and be that visionary leader that you are. And then your business still keeps going without you because the visionaries just get bored every five years. I've just seen that to be a common trait. And I say this as a visionary.

 

Sarah St. John (27:16)

Yeah, yeah. And I think the thing with podcasting is, because even when I started my podcast, I still was doing this, that and the other thing. But now I feel like for the first time in my whole entrepreneurial career, since like 2008 is when I kind of started, I would say like I feel more the most

 

like the clarity and in line and like know exactly what I want to do. Yeah, because even like, and we were talking yesterday how initially I was like, well, I could do like a podcast production agency. And, but I was like, because I was producing and still produce my own show, which hopefully I will pass that off here in a little bit. But,

 

You know, so was like, well, why not get paid to do it for other people? But I don't even like editing my own show. So I never ended up really getting it off the ground. Like I never really promoted it because I didn't really want to do it, but I just didn't know what else because I knew I wanted to be in the podcast space, but I was like, OK, well, if I'm not a podcast production agency, what else can I do? Podcast software? Well, I don't know how to make software.

 

Kimberly Spencer (28:22)

Yeah.

 

Sarah St. John (28:34)

But yeah, I realized, okay, marketing is the part that I like, not like social media marketing, but like podcast specific type of marketing. you know, and a lot of podcast production agencies don't really offer that. so, yeah. So that's my path now.

 

Kimberly Spencer (28:52)

Yeah. And I love it. mean, it's like when it's allowing for the each of those stepping stones to be the ones that that guide you. What was because Frugalpreneur is so based on being budget conscious and being aware. What was the biggest like financial challenge that you faced as a business owner?

 

Sarah St. John (29:13)

I guess I'll just go into this. I would say, so I was, when I was married, which I've been divorced now for like a year, I would say my biggest struggle was having to always like justify to my ex any expenses that were business related, even as small as they might be.

 

So, and I, you know, am naturally a Frugalpreneur or frugal, I guess, it's kind of how I was raised and whatever. So I was already, you know, of that mindset, you know, using as much free software as I could or affordable or, you know, keeping business expenses, at least software expenses, well under a hundred a month, like,

 

You know, and even creating like a budget for it and all this stuff, but still, even with all of that, would get, you know, pushback or whatever with any kind of business expense, even if it was five bucks. so I would say, I don't know if this counts, but I would say that was my biggest hurdle.

 

Kimberly Spencer (30:18)

totally counts. I had that in my ecommerce company with my partner to where I make a decision financially for anything. Anything not even like buying a pen or like office supplies as on company card like that. Without without it actually being approved. And I was like, this is this doesn't make sense. Nor does this feel like there is trust.

 

Sarah St. John (30:36)

fear of like.

 

Kimberly Spencer (30:46)

And I think when it comes to money, and that's one of the things I love about my husband so much is like, I remember when we were broke as a joke, and I come in and I'm like, I'm eight months pregnant. And I found a coach that I was like, I think I need to work with her. And it was less for the coaching because she actually stopped being in business for a while. But it was more for the community that I needed.

 

Because I was like, I'm going from like entrepreneur to being like a mompreneur, juggling a business and a baby. And I'm like, I need support, like just of women around me, just to kind of energy. And he was like, well, I know you're going to get it. So it's like, why are you asking me? And I said, He just trusts, like he always has trusted that I can make it back.

 

Sarah St. John (31:28)

Yeah!

 

Yeah. And, and, and that's good. And I think that's what you need is a partner, spouse, whatever that is totally supportive and puts in trust that, know, what you're doing with your money and like ROI and all this stuff. And so that was, I guess, kind of a big issue was just feeling maybe guilty

 

Kimberly Spencer (31:55)

So given that you're such a Frugalpreneur, what is the best money that you've ever spent for your podcast and on your podcast continuously? What is the best money that you're like, yes, no matter what, if you're gonna have a podcast or if you wanna be a professional guest and like go on a lot of shows, this is what you wanna like drop some serious change on.

 

because you will get an ROI, whether it's sound quality or tech or whatever it is.

 

Sarah St. John (32:22)

I mean, I would say first and foremost would be a mic, which you can get, you know, I have a USB mic, it's a Samsung Q2U. It's like, I don't know, 80 bucks probably. So from a like a technical or equipment perspective, I would say that. From, let's see. I mean, there's plenty of different software programs, but

 

I don't know, I would say invest in podcast conferences. not, I mean, yes, the education side of it, but I think even the networking side even more so.

 

Kimberly Spencer (32:56)

And even if you don't have your own podcast, when you go in with a generous heart, and you can refer people to podcasters, you can like, like you mentioned, Liz Wilcox, who on your show, she doesn't have a podcast, but she is going to these podcast conventions, and meeting a ton of

 

podcasters and getting on their shows. And it's a great way to build relationships. I will say it's one of the best ways that we've done for growing our business because I just meet so many amazing, awesome, cool podcasters. And it's far better than some like sad pitch email that's, know, amorphous unknown face that you don't know versus like, you know, when you get our pitch emails, but we won't say what our code word is.

 

Sarah St. John (33:36)

You can probably guess it at this point if you're paying attention.

 

Kimberly Spencer (33:41)

and that's the beauty though, it comes from relationships and building relationships. And like you said, like you've built an epic pod squad of like some amazing podcasters that you can go on their shows whenever you're promoting something, like it builds relationship. And I think that that's one of my favorite parts about this interview today is we got to show our weird, awesome friendship.

 

yeah. And like, that's the power, like the power of the podcast can be exponential when you focus on seeing what you can give to someone, not what you can get from someone.

 

Sarah St. John (34:15)

Yeah, that's a good point. And any kind of collaborations and yeah. And I, like you said earlier, the podcast industry, people in the podcast industry are much more about collaboration than competition.

 

Kimberly Spencer (34:30)

I always love to ask to wrap this up. What did you love about our conversation?

 

Sarah St. John (34:35)

Oh, I love you ask really good questions, some questions that I've never been asked before. Um, I love how, you know, the energy and the flow and obviously we get along well and have a good time. So, yeah.

 

Kimberly Spencer (34:50)

Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the Communication Queen podcast. Where can we find you? How can we work with you if we have a podcast and want to start marketing it and getting it in all the places and growing it to that sacred top 200 space?

 

Sarah St. John (35:05)

Yeah. So my site is podcast marketing dot agency. you know, very SEO. That's the name of the, my podcast marketing agency is podcast marketing agency. and the 15 point audit checklist thing that we had kind of talked about earlier, you can get that on the homepage. And then, if you want to check out the podcast, just search Frugalpreneur and wherever you listen to your podcasts.

 

Kimberly Spencer (35:31)

Amazing! As always, Communication Queens, stand out and let your voice be heard.